Who: Buck 65 and Sixtoo of the Sebutones.
Where: At Marc and Sharon Costanzo’s Funtrip house, Toronto.
When: Spring 1997, just prior to the Bassments of Badmen release party.

NWSA: What does Sebutones mean?

Sixtoo: It has many meanings, but the main thing behind it is it’s a train of thought more than a word, right?
Buck 65: Yep, it’s the funky drive train.
Sixtoo: So, uhm, it’s a product, too.
Buck 65: Right, you can buy it. It’s bottled. If you go to Shopper’s Drug Mart or any other quality drug store…
Both (together): You will find Sebutone in a bottle.
Sixtoo: It’s green; it’s sulphur-based… It’s a very viscous liquid.

NWSA: So, you guys stole it…

Buck 65: No, they stole it from us.
Sixtoo: Yeah, we were around first.
Buck 65: It’s the essence of Sixtoo and myself. There’s people that run around and go through our garbage and collect all our cells and hoping they’re still alive, like toenails and when we go to get our haircuts and stuff. They break it down and put it in a bottle.
Sixtoo: There’re greater forces at work.
Buck 65: There’s stellar bodies that wanna see hip hop grow and get better, but we can’t come right out and tell the people; we have to just drop little hints and stuff until those who are smart enough to stumble onto Sebutone…
Sixtoo: Drink from the vessel…
Buck 65: But it doesn’t really catch on because people think it’s shampoo or conditioner or something. And they don’t realize that most people are too proud to admit that they have scalp problems so they’ll just settle for a wacker shampoo and let their whole head get out of control rather than face the truth about the way hip hop is supposed to go as it evolves in a straight line.

NWSA: Okay, so what’s the whole philosophy for the Sebutones?

Buck 65: I’ll tell you. We’ve been watching Earth for centuries and it’s because it’s funner to watch the telecommunications that have come into popular practice, and we’ve watched since television and…
Sixtoo: We’ve watched the evolution.
Buck 65: As we watched Earth’s different takes on the future and science fiction, all that kind of stuff, I think they came closest to the mark in the 40s and 50s, and they’ve adapted the technology.
Sixtoo: The technology advanced.
Buck 65: The technology was right; it would have worked back then, and they’ve been trying too hard since. And that technology, they came the closest to what Sebutones actually liked then.

NWSA: When can we expect to see something from Sebutones? What do Sebutones have out now?

Sixtoo: Well, we have an independently-released cassette, but that’s like…
Buck 65: That’s the limited edition Four Ways to Rock version.
Sixtoo: We’re putting out a CD on Funtrip which will be out the end of January is what we’re shooting for.
Buck 65: Well, around the New Year. And there should be a 12” on there as well.
Sixtoo: A 12” as well. Sebutonedef A/B.

NWSA: Will the CD include stuff from the first tape?

Buck 65: Yeah, and maybe some more stuff.

NWSA: Who’s responsible for what in the group?

Sixtoo: We’re equal parts.
Buck 65: Neither Sixtoo nor myself have anything to do with it. We’re pawns.
Sixtoo: The bigger picture has control, not us.

NWSA: So, who produces?

Buck 65: I don’t know.
Sixtoo: The bulk of the production at this point has been handled by Rich [Buck 65]. I mean, we both have equal input.
Buck 65: It’s basically, before we went to work on it, we threw around ideas and concepts and stuff, I would say split right down the middle. We hooked up at my laboratory on my equipment, but when it came down to stuff with the sequencing, which is just as big a part of the production as the actual sampling and all that stuff, we were both talking all that stuff through.

NWSA: So, scratching equally?

Sixtoo: On these recordings, Rich has done all the scratching and cutting.

NWSA: Individually, what do you guys both have available?

Sixtoo: On a discography basis? Mine’s like 25 things long. Different things I’m on, there’re 25 things and different labels down the line. But, as Sixtoo, I’ve got 3 independent releases on Ant Records and a few appearances on compilations.
Buck 65: I’ve been working for a long time, too, but I suppose what’s worth mentioning at this point would be Chin Music EP on No! Records, and the Stolen Bass 12” on Murder, and the Game Tight cassette on Murder. The Sebutones, of course, and then Year Zero, which is about to come out, and an album of lost recordings called Do You Like My Technique?, which should be out anytime now. Then there’s the Murderfest 7” which has “By Design” on it. And Bassments of Badmen material.
Sixtoo: Yeah, also Bassments. The last Haltown thing; we both have stuff on that.
Buck 65: That pretty much covers it.
Sixtoo: It’s out there, you know.

NWSA: Year Zero and your tape of lost songs, will they be released on Four Ways to Rock?

Buck 65: As it stands right now, the plan is to do it up with Four Ways to Rock, but I’m being a little more receptive to offers for help right now cuz I’ve got a collection agency on my ass for student loan bullshit.
Sixtoo: Individually, we’re both fucked financially right now.
Buck 65: Pretty much.
Sixtoo: And that has nothing to do with Sebutones; it’s just we’re fucked, both of us.
Buck 65: These Earth rules…
Sixtoo: Yeah, they can fucking constrict.
Buck 65: We’ve gotta go back.

NWSA: Back to where there were no taxes and stuff…

Buck 65: Yep, from the planet Nevada.

NWSA: Why do you guys use a lot of jazz samples? The early stuff didn’t seem so jazzy, so why the move towards jazz?

Buck 65: I don’t think we use that much jazz material; it’s just maybe we’re adopting a more jazz-inspired mindset approach to music because if you take most of the songs off Psoriasis, in fact I’ve never had more diverse sources of material before. In fact, I would say I’d used more jazz, strictly speaking, in the past than I have on this, but it just has a jazzier feel to how it goes. But generally…
Sixtoo: Also because it’s more complicated.
Buck 65: Yeah, the production is a lot more complicated, so it kind of lends itself to that sort of description better. I just keep listening for anything that gives me the creeps, and there’s a lot of creepy music in jazz.
Sixtoo: We sample from stuff that’s recorded, in the first place, properly, which the bulk of it’s from the 70s and from jazz records. Those records have the most amazing sounds on them, and that’s what it comes down to – the best recording. Things were still recorded properly with one mic on the drums instead of a thousand.
Buck 65: The number one criteria isn’t, like, labels or genres of music, it’s the year. Because there’s a certain sound that we want our shit to sound like, cuz the sound of recorded music varies from one year to the next. You can take a recording of a soul 78 from the 30s and you can probably say, “Yeah, it’s from 30-whatever.” You could listen to something from the 50s and say, “Yeah, that’s probably recorded in the 50s.” And I’m at the point where I can tell you when I hear something, “Yeah that sounds like it was recorded in ’72.” Basically, ’72 is the year to highlight with a pink felt-tip.
Sixtoo: Everything was recorded properly then.
Buck 65: We’re looking for that ’72.
Sixtoo: It’s a big number.
Buck 65: Jesus Blue-eyed Christ
(laughter)
Sixtoo: That was brilliant.
Buck 65: Just as a side note, my number on enemy on Earth is fucking time. I hate time. Someone asked me recently, they said, “You never put the date on anything, why?” I hate time. Time is not on my side.
Sixtoo: Time fucks us all.
Buck 65: Well, it fucks with me bad. It’s fucking with us.

NWSA: So, is there anything you can do about time?

Buck 65: I can just ignore its existence. Fuck it, man.
Sixtoo: Fuck time, man.

But you’re wearing a watch…

Buck 65: That’s sentimental, like long story. It’s personal.
Sixtoo: I got mine when I quit work. They gave me a watch. I have no job, I’m unemployed. I’m taking all offers.
Buck 65: I get paid to look at the front door.

NWSA: Sixtoo, you refer to yourself as the “Multiple Personality Kid”…

Sixtoo: Aw, you’ve already done that one.

NWSA: You’ve already talked about yourself. I wanna know how many personalities are sitting at this table.

Sixtoo: Man, there’s too-fucking-many.

NWSA: And Sebutones is another complete personality for both of you, in a way.

Buck 65: That’s probably pretty fair to say.
Sixtoo: I love channeling. I’m not schizophrenic.
Buck 65: I’m not sure that I’m not.
Sixtoo: I think everybody takes different things and, I don’t know man… You have lots, I have lots. I have different mentalities that deal with different situations, just like everybody else.
Buck 65: This girl that wanted to marry me once, tried to come backstage about 15 minutes before I was doing a show and I said, “You have to get the fuck out of here.” And good ole Rich Terfry, angel pussy-ass boy, would never say that. Rich Terfry is the nicest, most honest guy I personally know. But to do this shit and get ready, I can’t be too nice. I was in a personal séance backstage and this girl came backstage and said she just wanted to keep me company or be with me and like [in devil voice], “You’ve got to get the fuck outta here.” And she wouldn’t go, so I called security and they hauled her out of there kicking and screaming, and I haven’t heard from her since.
Sixtoo: It gets fucked up. You’ve got to have different mindsets for different situations. And as many situations as there are, there’re as many different personalities in the Sebutones.
Buck 65: I’m really exercising my brains and all those good intangible qualities of myself. I interviewed myself once on the radio. Buck 65 interviewed Stinkin’ Rich. That was good.
Sixtoo: Did they fight each other?
Buck 65: Yeah.

NWSA: Did they agree on many things?

Buck 65: No, hardly anything. But, look at these guys doing dishes… [all eyes go to Sharon and Marc Costanzo]. That’s cool. No. God, I don’t even like most of those guys [the Certain Others]. I kinda like Buck 65, personally, if you’re asking Rich Terfry.
Sixtoo: I like the guy that quit my job a week ago.
Buck 65: There’re a lot of guys involved in this mess, just like the people I don’t like. I don’t like people that, to quote [Sloan’s] Patrick Pentland, “see the good in everyone.” I hate that kind of person. No, I don’t, but I have a problem with them sometimes.

NWSA: The Halifax scene, is it improving or progressing?

Sixtoo: Depends.
Buck 65: Depends on how you wanna look at it. What’s happening is dope, but there’s not as much happening right now, I don’t think.
Sixtoo: The few things that are coming out are really focused.
Buck 65: There’re a lot of cocoons and a lot of big-ass scary butterflies in Halifax right now. But Bonshah might hatch again soon.
Sixtoo: There’re a couple of cocoons just sitting there.

NWSA: Is the sprit getting bigger? Are people realizing there’s a lot of hip hop there?

Buck 65: It seems like people are starting to recognize it somewhat, but it’s still a big struggle there.
Sixtoo: It’s going to have to have somebody go out and come back.
Buck 65: Halifax needs a kick in the ass, there’s no question; or, a slap in the face or just to be shooken up a bit. But never shake a baby.
(laughs)

NWSA: Everybody hears about Toronto. Everybody hears about Vancouver. But no one hears about Halifax for hip hop. Is this because of the east coast stereotype of being laid back and maybe you’re not pushing for things?

Sixtoo: We’re pushing this shit harder than anybody.
Hip Club Groove’s Cheklove: I hear that!
Buck 65: We’re working harder than anybody else. But, if you take hip hop out of the equation and you look at these three areas – Vancouver, Toronto and Halifax – Vancouver has a reputation of having an out of control ego, the city itself. Toronto prides itself on calling itself the centre of the universe, but you know, we’re chilling out on the east coast.
Sixtoo: Too much control and not enough brains in Toronto. In Halifax, we’re putting our time in.
Buck 65: St. Patrick chased the snakes out of the east coast, but there’re still snakes in the grass; still a lot of people with shit slicks in their underwear in other parts of the country.

NWSA: In Halifax, who is on the scene that can hang with the big guys?

Buck 65 [picking up the recorder and speaking directly into it]: I have no problem, I say with total confidence at the risk of sounding egotistical – out of control – that I write better rhymes than any other human, and at a DJ level, Critical can pretty much hang – there’s some better DJ’s out, but he can hang – and production-wise, no one’s willing to experiment much more than Buck 65. [Returning the recorder to the table] The quality of the good hip hop coming out of Halifax, not only can it hang, I honestly think it can kick the ass of anything else. And I can step back out of that sphere as Rich Terfry and look at it as an intelligent human being and just size it up with 15 years of experience of being involved in hip hop culture and say that with total confidence. What do you have to add to that Rob?
Sixtoo: I feel that way, not only about you but about many people as well.

NWSA: Who do you think is coming up that’s ready to hit?

Sixtoo: In Halifax?
Buck 65: Nathan, of course.
Sixtoo: Little T. The Alien and Little T. This kid Noah [Kunga 219] I’ve been hanging with off and on. And that guy Jeff [Knowself].
Buck 65: Yeah, Knowself. There’s a few that just need to put a few more Earth-years under their so-called belts and they’ll be a-okay. There’re a lot of TV babies out there in the scene in Halifax – you can’t blame them.
Sixtoo: There’re a lot of guys being shaped by the ideals being put out by individuals.
Buck 65: Once they mature a little bit, therere some people that show some nice potential out there. It would be fair to say in that list of names: Classified, and that kid Kaspa might show some potential if he could just drop the bullshit. He could talk some shit but he can be okay cuz I can hear his rhymes and stuff. Uhm, let’s think about it for a sec. It always sucks if you forget about someone we should mention. [Pauses] Ah, I don’t give a shit.
Sixtoo: I don’t give a shit, either. I’ve worked too hard to think about all these other people.
Buck 65: It’s everyone’s prerogative to give a shit about themselves more than anything else.

NWSA: I’m sure you’re each producing for other people or working with other people. Who are they?

Sixtoo: I’m in the process of producing Little T’s cassette right now. And I’m throwing some stuff to a rapper named Kunga.
Buck 65: You know what? He’s not humble enough. He’s gonna have some good rhymes, but he needs to get a little more humble. I was walking across the campus at Dal, and he’s wearing all these big fucking clothes and stuff, and he’s walking across the sectional lot all by himself going through all these crazy antics and everyone’s laughing at him like, “What a fucking retard,” and he’s like, loud and shit. I hate that shit, man. He’s gotta chill.
Sixtoo: I’m just making some beats for the kid, to make him fucking practice.
Buck 65: But he slipped a tape in my mailbox of him rhyming, and he has good rhymes, no question, but chill a little.
Sixtoo: I made a commitment to Knowself. I’m producing some stuff for him.
Len’s Marc Costanzo: Oh, that’s what’s going on, man. Y’all are too serious. I was like, what the fuck, you guys are freaking me out. (laughs)
Buck 65: I already hooked Knowself up with one beat. I gave him three and he picked one. And I’m going to be bringing Bonshah back. And Uncle Climax.
Sixtoo: Cory, what are you going to call yourselves now?
Cheklove: Renegade Synapsis [aka Cheklove & Moves].
Sixtoo: And of course, we’ll probably do stuff for each other. Individual projects and the Sebutones thing. Sebutones thing is the main concern. It’s most important to Earth.

NWSA: What went wrong with commercial hip hop?

Sixtoo: It went wrong with majors obtaining control and not giving the artists anything.
Buck 65: In a sense you’re really tempted to blame industry because they decided they were going to start calling the shots a long time ago, but after they did it for a little while, it just changed the way people started thinking about stuff. It’s like when the KKK was making Troop gear, man, it worked. It’s gross. I don’t like any of it. But, there’s a really exciting, really good, really healthy scene that’s way underground. That’s where it’s healthiest right now. But, man, is there a lot of crap out there. They’ve got the DJ in the back.
Sixtoo: And he’s fucking doing shit. He’s playing the DAT back there; he’s drunk.
Buck 65: There’re no DJs, man. Bring the DJ back. They’re not letting people sample anymore. They cut off the evolution of hip hop and it’s just going in every other direction and it just doesn’t make any sense. Everyone’s talking shit.
Sixtoo: You mentioned sampling, and the Sebutones are taking that as an artform.
Buck 65: This is one of those things, if you get me going I start thinking about it, I’ll talk about it for hours. Basically, all I can say is there’s nothing right.
Sixtoo: On every level, something is wrong.

NWSA: What do you have to say to those people who think that is hip hop?

Buck 65: You can’t even tell them anything because they’re so wrapped up in it. The egos attached to that whole scene is out of control, and they’ll be so quick to think they’re superior to me and anything I might have to say because DJ Critical screamed about that for the duration of the time he was on the radio watching the audience dwindle and dwindle and dwindle to that last core spine of the audience. It’s dying, but everything’s in place for the next plague or ice age and the song will survive. When it’s all said and done, hip hop is going to be teeny-tiny again but it’s going to be really strong because it’s survived the catastrophe.

NWSA: Sixtoo, you’re very honest in your lyrics. What do you think about that, and how do you go about doing it?

Buck 65: That’s what I ask.
Sixtoo: Mostly I write to get shit off my chest, and I use writing lyrics as a means of escape. And especially since I quit drinking, I quit smoking cigarettes, and I’ve had a lot of personal things in my life that have really shown in my writing, as anyone who’s listened to any of my shit will know. I use it as a means of escape and a means of getting rid of frustration. And usually stuff that I write is frustrated and sad and angry because of the emotions I want to get rid of, and the good shit is what I keep with me, right?

NWSA: It seems very much the way many poets would go about writing poetry.

Sixtoo: I’ll put out a love jam . If a girl makes me feel good, I’ll write a song about that.
Buck 65: I’m always writing love jams. Not always – I don’t fall in love every few minutes, but I’ve done that a couple of times.
Sixtoo: Basically, if it doesn’t have enough meaning behind it to at least affect me, then how’s it going to affect anyone else? Not that I write my shit for anybody other than myself; and I think that’s another thing, that I totally write my stuff for myself.

NWSA: What are you sampling now? What are some of your best records to pull stuff from?

Sixtoo: We’re not going to let any cats out of the bag, but the years, ’73 is the year.
Buck 65: ’72, ’73, ’74. But let me think real fast.
Sixtoo: I listen to a lot of Yusef Lateef. Anything with Herbie Hancock and Ron Carter. Ron Carter and Buster Williams are my favourite bassists.
Buck 65: Who are some artists you can pick up a record and be guaranteed that it’s going to be dope?
Sixtoo: Ramsey Lewis is a pretty fair bet if the years are good.
Buck 65: Like I was explaining, the stuff I’m doing now, there’s no rules at all. The best shit I’ve come up with recently, the song that’s about to come out, it’s going to be on Year Zero that you haven’t heard yet. One of the samples I used off that comes from this record called CineMoog. It’s this guy that plays like Moog keyboards when they first became really popular and there were all these Moog records that came out in the early 70s, just doing theme songs from movies. I’m using a lot of experimental music for sounds and stuff.
Sixtoo: Everything is game. If the sound is right, everything is game. Lots of creepy shit. Horror movies.
Buck 65: Movies, man. I’m hooking up this shit right now, I almost forgot about it. In Rosemary’s Baby, right when she first lays her eyes on the baby, you hear like [imitates music], and I sampled that for this thing that I’m just working on now. I’ve gotta hook up a tape deck permanently to my TV because my biggest inspiration musically lately has been the music that plays in MacMillan & Wife, Columbo, and all the Mystery Theatre shit on A&E. Man, there’s good music up in there. Yeah, TV more and more for me.
Sixtoo: Brian [Moves] is the king of sampling movies.

NWSA: What is in the future for each of you?

Sixtoo: We’re putting another Sebutones record together.
Buck 65: And we’re working on all the concepts, and I’m writing stuff already for the next body of Sebutones work.
Sixtoo: I’m trying to do the work, too.
Buck 65: I’m trying to chill out a little bit cuz I have a huge body of work – a huge body of work! – but it’s hard cuz I’ve got the beats bad.
Sixtoo: Both of us put out a crazy amount of stuff. Last year I put out three tapes and other shit that nobody hears like little joke tapes and Ant Records songs.
Buck 65: I can’t leave that shit alone.
Sixtoo: You have an urge to create, you’re going to create something and maybe people will hear it and maybe they won’t. I’m going back to school cuz I’m in a fucked situation that I’ve got to be in school to get some loot so I can live and have a place to live.
Buck 65: I’m going back to the home galaxy once I put this shit out. I’ll leave Earth with a little something to think about then I’m getting the hell out of here. This place sucks with an “x”. Rob, we should go put on eye makeup.
Sixtoo: Yeah, you’re right. We can’t let them know who we are.
Buck 65: They’ll try to hurt us.
Sixtoo: They will try to hurt us.
Cheklove: Sebutonedef!